Anyone have thoughts on the announced Nvidia RTX 20XX line


#61

Walked right into that one. Sorry for the derail guys, i’m out.

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I sense that you’ve got a bit of a false perception of what the Khronos Group actually is (they’re the ones developing Vulkan, Github just hosts the repository (Github is a place where you can host open source projects for free)). Head on over to their Wiki page if you’re interested, you might be surprised who some of the contributors are.


#62

Sarcasm it got you again LoL yes I know Sobek, but DirectX is still the mainstream you know this and if they ramp up Raytracing as they say they will pfft they will own gaming, sims on the other hand pfft who knows.

Also to add a driving factor for video card manufacturers looking at who to best support considering PC gaming is on the increase when looking at $$$$$$

A recent link - https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/directx/2018/03/19/announcing-microsoft-directx-raytracing/

:wink:


#63

@BeachAV8R
sobek is right. Vulkan is a beautiful thing, but not THAT new and definitely not an excuse to buy a brand-new raytracing Nvidia card.
To give you some context:
My previous card, the AMD R9 290(X) was built to run a lot faster in Vulkan than in DX11 (and it showed in some benchmarks). Released almost 5 years ago. Reason was something with parallel processing rather than the clockspeed of the competing GTX7xx and GTX9xx. Waaay before anyone thought about raytracing.

So if anything, Vulkan will be better if you own an (old) AMD card. You can expect DCS performance to improve then (probably just when @TheAlmightySnark decides to upgrade and get rid of his AMD card :stuck_out_tongue: )


#64

Hopefully DCS performance should increase for newer hardware too because they move from a high level API to a low level API. It depends a bit on how deep they go into refactoring their monolithic core thread while porting to the new API.


#65

Well my card has not shipped yet and likely won’t until the 28th. And that Linus review has been sitting in my head for some time now (thanks @Bogusheadbox :-)). Given that Raytracing is not going to be an impact in flight sims for some time (years? a decade?) and their sweet AI anti-aliasing tech needs to be coordinated between Nvidia and ED (which is also something that also may take years), I am seriously considering waiting for a generation. Like Linus says … it seems that this generation has been rushed.

The only driving factor for me at the moment is to get into VR more with flight simming. Not necessarily in the air-to-air combat realm, as that has it’s issues w/ resolution and FoV. My 1070 is … adequate if I turn things down.

What I am really trying to do is prepare myself for the next gen VR headset and that is, as far as I can tell, at least a year away. I fear that a 2080 is only going to partially fill the gap I am going to want in a year. I will be at the dawn of the next gen VR with a video card that will likely feel like the 1070 does to me with the Oculus Rift now … wanting more :-).

So I think that it is best to wait until that future becomes more certain. I mean it’s not like the 2080 is going to go up in price over the next few months. I mean there is not resurgence in bitcoin mining about to happen, right? Right?


#66

Sorry @Fridge.


#67

Information is never bad :slight_smile:


#68

Yeah…that has been rattling around in my head too. I might should just sit on my hands right now. My system is OK-ish and I’m not hating it…but I just want to squeeze as much detail out of my VR experiences as I can. If I knew that Rift 2.0 or whatever it might be is a few months away, I’d upgrade now. (Isn’t there supposed to be some announcement by Oculus in the next few days on where they are headed?). I don’t know that I’d want to go with a Pimax just because I like the quality and controllers of the Rift at this point. I dunno…we’ll see…


#69

Yeah so far the 20xx line doesn’t seem to offer much, especially since we don’t know how much of a hit or dud raytracing tech will be in games. I was honestly expecting a lot more given how much time has passed since the release of the 1080.

Do we know anything about AMD’s next generation?


#70

Amd with their affinity with vulkan, will be interesting to see what comes up in the near future


#71

It’s called Navi, will use 7nm process and come out some time between turn of the year to 2021. That’s about the state of current knowledge.


#72

So is this just a stop gap generation much like the GT9800 was back when?


#73

Yes and no.

I mean you would have to ignore the raytracing and AI anti-alaising to call it a stop gap generation.

For us flight simmers? Yes. For the general gaming population? Maybe. For high end gamers with AAA games coming out in the next few months? No. For VR: Magic 8-ball says it’s ‘Undecided’.


#74

How many titles are coming out with raytracing in the next few months?

I would hazard a guess, now that official performance has been released of 20 to 30 percent increase (over 1080ti). That its a question of “if” those gains are required by gamers for the purpose of latest titles. Latest titles won’t rely on exclusivity for raytracing and since no official performance hit can be determined, now or in the next few months, raytracing is a moot point. I can’t see it adding FPS, its an additional process that will consume it. To what extent, no-one knows

However if the proven performance of 20-30 percent matters to particular gamers and the price point is acceptable for the gains, then good stuff


#75

There is a list on nvidia’s site, but it’s not particularly long. Like DX12 before it, and DX10 before that, expect the 2nd and even 3rd gen RT cards to be on the shelves before we see a significant number of games out in any given genre supporting it.

RT will NOT improve performance. It destroys it on standard cards. However, the RTX cards should allow it without that impact. It will of course run slower than standard rasterized games on those cards, but they should at least be playable.

The real question - will games w/RT on run faster on a 2080 than they do on a 1080 w/o RT on - has yet to be answered. My hunch is that they will not. RT enabled is likely to give lesser performance on 2080 cards than RT disabled on 1080 cards. BUT…it will look amazing.

The big negative of DX12 was it didn’t offer anything besides improved performance IF the developer had the talent to exploit it. If they lacked that talent, performance was seen to actually drop in many cases. RT on will certainly improve the appearance while causing a hit, so it will be up to the user to determine if it’s worth it.

Note also that many developers are projecting that a given 2080 card @4k resolution will have higher performance than when RT is enabled @1080p resolution. You can forget RT w/4K with the 2080 series, not even an OC’d 2080 Ti is going to get “acceptable” (read - 60) fps in that scenario.

The lesser discussed feature, DLSS, also needs to be enabled on a per-game basis although it takes less effort by the devs so I expect to see it show up on a wider basis in the coming year. That will work with any Turing card and should give better FSAA with better performance to boot. It just needs to be done by the devs, not forced on in the video drivers.

Oh, and as this is all based on MS DirectX RT stuff, I would think Vulkan games won’t see RT or DLSS. I hope I’m wrong about that, though, because I’d love DLSS in DCS.


#76

Yeah, raytracing I am not sold on at the moment and there are a limited about of games that will support it in the near future. In my mind it’s a ‘cool to have’ but not at the expense of performance.

That’s it. That’s the AI Anti Aliasing that I was too lazy to look up the correct term for; even too lazy to look farther up in this thread. I think that is the one that can get us a performance increase but, as mentioned, has to be implemented on a game-by-game basis and that is something I do not see ED getting to any time soon (I will be happy to be proven wrong but I feel that ED has their focus on other priorities).

All I am saying above is that it is arguable that this generation is not a stopgap one … just one with features that we, as simmers, don’t really care about at the moment. Add to that an unspectacular performance bump and that has me hesitating.

Benchmarks that I have seen for the 2080 put it ahead of the 1080 Ti, and that is about on par with my recollection for the 980 Ti and the 1080. I guess the issue is that the 2080 is more expensive than anticipated for the performance gain those benchmarks present and that could be Nvidia trying to make a quick extra buck off the early adopters in lieu of ‘lost profits’ that they could have seen at the hands of the bitcoin miners.

So not a stop-gap in my mind but also not as good a ‘leap’ in performance that I was expecting for that price point.

EDIT: This could be a great position for AMD to step in with a performance booster at a cheaper cost giving those who are not expectant on the new features trickling down into their game soon enough.


#77

This…


#78

TLDR: nVidia, in their capacity as a Khronos group contributor, are in the process of integrating ray tracing into Vulkan. DLSS will come as well, i’m sure.

Chances are that the 7nm yield is pretty much crap right now, that is why they are not in a position to exploit the current situation. Maybe by the end of the year.


#79

Nice review comparing 1080ti to 2080ti. Incremental is the word…


#80

Yeah, seems to be the standard thoughts @Tankerwade. In standard rastorisation, the 1080ti has the same performance as a stock 2080. So I really wouldn’t get that one.

Also I read a good article that if you aren’t interested in true 4k resolution, you can buy a 1080ti and a gsync monitor for the same price as the 2080ti