DCS South Atlantic WIP Video

Here’s another one! Some F/A-18 free flying over the new terrain.

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This is from back in February, but want to keep this thread alive. It’s 47 mins with Tactical Pascale’s interview with RAZBAM. Very similar to the Air Combat Sim podcast interview in April, but with a video and tons of screens. So glad that they included Tierra del Fuego, although I know expanding the map will delay release.

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Can’t recommend enough the book “Harrier 809”. It’s recent and I thoroughly enjoyed it, with a great insight into the total air and sea war in the Falklands. It really has me looking forward to the South Atlantic.

That aside…I’ll be doing a lot of sightseeing in Tierra del Fuego.

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Highly agree with that. Listened to the first 10 mins of the author’s interview on the fighter pilot podcast, and had to stop there. I had forgotten so many of the details of the war, that to listen further would have spoiled the book. My brother is listening now and enjoying it equally. As a follow-up, I’m now about a 1/3 of the through Harrier Boys.

Say what you will, it’s a remarkable engineering achievement that gets the job done when called upon. On the original FP podcast covering the AV-8B, it’s telling that the episode’s SME, said that while the F-35B is better in every way, the Harrier is still his favorite “stick and rudder” aircraft.

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Agreed. The lengths the Royal Navy and RAF went to to make the war happen were a great testament to their character.

I’ll check out Harrier Boys. Thanks.

I’m going to dip into my new system budget to get this one. My first thought: a campaign representing the actual conflict might even run on my current system (number of units involved and such).

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I know that RAZBAM is working on an asset pack to go with SA. Perhaps asking too much, but hoping at some point that SS Atlantic Conveyor, HMS Hermes, and HMS Invincible, are on the road map. For Argentina, perhaps ARA Veinticinco de Mayo.

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The sinking of the belgrano was a huge controversial incident in that particular conflict, I wonder about the amount of time that needs to go by before it is not too tasteless to add such units. Just last month the grim reaper s did a video on the HMS Sheffield attack. I knew an officer who died in that attack and thought that the video was in poor taste.
It may well be my sensibilities are to moral.

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No, I think that you are on the right track Cib. No doubt regrettable and desperate actions on both sides of the conflict. No need to open deep wounds. We must tread carefully here.

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This is a tough subject…

We simulate war, for entertaiment. That’s basically what combat flightsims do.
Sometimes we simulate imaginary wars and sometimes real wars. People die in real wars. But I don’t feel that we find entertainment in simulating the killing of people. The entertainment comes from the competition that war presents. In real life it is a competition of life and death, but it’s not when doing it virtually.
But fact remains that we often simulate battles where real people died. As long as we approach this with tact, I’m ok with it. But I have never lost anybody near and dear, in war. If I did, I would probably feel differently about it.
So I guess it’s up to people, like @Cib, who have personal associations to battle losses, to set the limits.

I can imagine that it is easy, for people like me, to overstep somebody else’s boundaries. It’s probably just due to ignorance, not disrespect.

If anybody feels that posts and threads are getting disrespectful in any way, use the flag system and we will moderate it.
It’s better that somebody’s post is removed than somebody else feels they can’t visit the forum because it upsets them.

We are mostly self moderating and I have no doubt we can deal with this, as a group.

But we mods need the input, people. Let us know. Nobody will ever get thrown out for minor discrepancies. You’re not condemning anybody because you flag their posts.

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Certainly it’s worth a discussion, I mean we simulate endless scenarios in this sim, many of which have some basis in historical precedent. I imagine the teens of today look at the Falklands conflict as removed as world war 2 was for me and probably most 50 somethings too. My uncle was at Dunkirk and yet I have no qualms about doing some recreational flying over the area and giving the Hun a bloody nose.

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I can’t add anything there @Troll.

All I can come up with is, as you mention, respect. From all sides. I strive to be aware that others don’t react to things the same way I do. Not always successful, but I try.

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Imagine how many virtual people are being killed simulating those historical battles in the Total War series, from Rome to Japan to China to ancient Greece.

Before PC games there were board games like Axis and Allies. Before that, there were tabletop models and recreations going over the strategies and tactics, going back centuries if not millennia.

Is it insensitive? To those directly affected, of course. To the rest of the world? Just another bit of history. That’s human nature. It’s why wars still happen after the lesson that it’s horrible is certainly understood universally…because it still seems abstract.

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Well, some people will consider any entertainment associated with war to be insensitive. I doubt they visit this forum on a regular basis though.

I think one can consider what we war gamers do to fall under the ”Lest we forget” category. A lot of real people made the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom. We owe it to them to remember. Some read books or watch movies about them. Others reenact through games. Many of us do all of the above.

So war gaming or combat simulation isn’t necessarily insensitive by default.

I do find this discussion interesting and I’m eager to hear how others feel about it, as I’m sure there are many different views on the subject.

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To me, it’s all in the tone.

Attitude, respect, whatever you want to call it, but it’s definitely subjective and tricky.

It’s good to be reminded that some wars that may seem distant to us, are very close to others.

Thank you for that @Cib . Falklands seems very far for me, while Syria is sometimes too close for comfort. I taught kids who fled that country, and had a coworker from there on my previous job.

Having said that, I really feel that (unlike some YouTube groups), the people in this forum generally seem to hit the right tone, all things considered.

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Personally I feel thus.

I have no issue with the simulation of war, warfare and individual battles in the sense of learning and recreation of said battles. Provided it is done with respect to the fallen of ALL sides and never with anger or intent to wound current generations for battles long past.

I have no issue in the slightest with killing a fake Nazi soldier. But I would never associate that fake soldier with either a fallen soldier of the era or a current day German.

History is to be remembered and learned from, not paid for.

Same with the Falklands, evil carried out on both side there, without question or thought but still needs to be remembered and the experiences of those who took part and were lost need remembering. I for one will happily role play the dashing harrier pilot smashing skyhawks, but I won’t be diminishing the loss the British and the Argentinian flyers and soldiers faced.

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This.

Simulating historical things is agood way of investigating the why and when and where of things, especially the more technical side of things. Why was the Fw-190 so deadly? When did the tide turn on the IJN? Where would one hit a tiger tank to disable it?

The human side is at most a sideshow in our games, and it damn well should be as computer games are hardly conducive to a deep delve into the mind of private Richards or general Zhukov, their motivations, doubts, worries and desires. Literature is far better for that, a fact youcan see reflected in the way that il2 leans heavily on swathes of text to illustrate the who and why and such of the flying and the fighting.

As for morality, eh. Depends very much on how the story is told. As technical as our simulation games are, it’s quite easy to steer clear of the minefields of politics. Still, certain images and happenings will never be neutral to some people. For me that’s 109’s or 190’s. I just can’t put myself in Helmut Jagdflieger’s boots.

I can easily imagine sinking HMS Sheffield elicits strong feelings in some people. I respect that. It means those images and that story still carry lots of meaning. It means they care about the who and where and why.

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I find most of these “recreation” videos from them very distasteful, especially “how” they treat their subject that is more often than not no laughing matter.

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If it’s the same dude and his group we’re thinking of, yeah he/they showed their utterly puerile lack of a moral compass on multiple occasions and subjects. I feel dirty everytime I watch them and am entertained by it.

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Yeah, I refuse to watch their content- I don’t feed the trolls.

Took YouTube a couple months, but I think I finally have the algorithm trained now.

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