New Game Coming Out: Task Force Admiral

schurem · January 16, 2020, 10:02pm

Does all this science figure into design and use of antiship weapons?

How does a modern antiship missile deteriorate the ships’ stability state? Or are they merely menat to disable the ship so the sinking itself can be done with things like GBU-24?

Are torpedoes smart enough to hit just outside the centerline for maximam keel-overage or do they just go for center mass and enough bang to murderise the thing?

When pre-aiming the above-mentioned bomb, do the intel weenies take into account the internal structure of their target so the weapon will do maximal stability damage? Or is that a level of knowledge/control they just didn’t have?

Sryan · January 16, 2020, 10:12pm

Hangar will know better than I do, but ASM’s typically strike above the waterline, so stability isn’t affected that much until sustained damage results in the holes sinking below the waterline.

Modern torpedo’s like the Mk.48 ADCAP detonate below the keel from which a ship lends a lot of its physical integrity, resulting in severe weakening of the ship.

I don’t think bombing ships is a typical procedure anymore, especially as other ships in its fleet could still attempt to defend it with medium to long range weapons, unless that ship was a loner.

Hangar200 · January 16, 2020, 10:13pm

I am about to step out to dinner so the full explanation will have to wait. Let me say, the is a very insightful set of questions.

The short answers are:
Yes; Sort of; New torpedoes are different (see @Sryan’s post); Yes, at least we used to.

Amiral_Crapaud · January 17, 2020, 4:52am

Thanks Hangar - at any rate our final game manual & tech data will be reviewed by people like you, it will probably help with the overall feeling, an prevent me from writing too many blunders.

Regarding underwater hits, naturally the crude technologies available to the belligerents at the time meant that when known, the recreation of aforementioned effects could only be emulated at best without the help of actual computer guidance (whether it would be aboard the firing platform or aboard the weapon proper).

Still, enough was known at that time for different navies (in the most infamous cases the USN & the Kriegsmarine) to attempt conceiving magnetic detonators for their torpedoes, a mechanism whose purpose was precisely to provoke an explosion under the keel. This tech lead to some of the torpedo issues both services experienced early in their own war and ended up being a bad option (in the case of the USN, the impact trigger and the depth setting being both deficient too, it just added to the overall bleakness of the situation). But a mere example of what a near miss can do to a ship can be seen here, with USS Aaron Ward, USS Mayrant & USS Shubrick (the latter was struck by a bomb that went through the whole ship and detonated under the keel).

More details here

Another attempt at making sure that buoyancy (or stability ^^) was targeted specifically with the crude technologies of the day was the well-known “swimming” cap fitted to Japanese shells, in order to streamline their underwater performance and allow them to hit the underwater part of the hull while keeping the best trajectory properties. It happens that the most famous example of the kind probably remains Prince of Wales’ underwater hit on Bismarck’s fuel bunkers, but in the Pacific it happened at least one - at Cape Esperance, to USS Boise.

In other words, even before someone could dream of advanced embarked electronics a lot of efforts were dedicated to optimize the destruction effect of these devices - although these ended up delivering only partial successes, most of these crippling near misses & other spectacular hits being more often than note simply the result of lucky hits by pretty normal ordnance. If this knowledge was already being used to increase the chances of actual damage years before WW2, you can bet it is only more so today.

Hangar200 · January 17, 2020, 5:36pm

The full answers to @schurem’s questions.

Yes, there is a lot of “ship science” that goes into designing a weapon to kill a ship. Notice I said “kill” and not “sink”. Kills can come in two categories. A mission kill (cannot shoot stuff) and a maneuverability kill (can’t drive around).

This question goes to the heart of the sink vs kill issue. Once a ship has been heavily damaged, is on fire, and is essentially out of the fight, it becomes somewhat moot if it sinks or not–it is Hors de combat. Most of the science in ASCM development is focused on getting the missile to the target–speed, sea skimming, various end game maneuvers–without getting shot down. Pop-up maneuvers give the missile a plunging hit designed to rip through decks. The warheads (usually some sort of blast-frag) are designed to rip a ship’s guts out from the inside and start fires. (Note: The biggest threat on a ship is fire since you have nowhere to escape.) Once a ship is helpless, and the unwounded / not dead crew is busy with fire fighting (or is busy jumping over the side), then if somebody has an extra LGB, sure, hit it and start more fires, break more equipment, cause more mayhem…and maybe punch a hole in the hull to get some flooding going.

Today, yes. However, in my post I was thinking of WWII torpedoes which were designed, more or less, to hit the side of a ship below the waterline. Many modern torpedoes, like the USN’s MK-48 are designed to detonate beneath a ship, the explosion causing hydrodynamic effects that essentially “break the ship’s back”-break the keel. There are MK-48 videos on YT.

… or there is this, photos I took, standing under the hull of ROKS Cheonan, the Korean corvette that was sunk by a North Korean submarine in 2010.

The propers were still turning when the aft section of the hull hit the bottom…don’t know who that sharp looking USN CAPT is…

This shows one of her stabilization fins. See how the steel skin has been forced in over the fin’s frame by the hydrodynamic pressure exerted on it during the explosion–a effect called “soap dishing”. …there’s that CAPT again.

Photo looking aft and up into the hull of the ship - you can see how everything has been blown upwards by the blast.

Back when I was young and the Cold War was in full swing, we did have classified publications that showed one where to hit various combatants to achieve mission or maneuver kills. It wasn’t rocket science. Mission kill? Hit them in the missile magazine…almost always located right below a missile launcher. Maneuver kill? Hit them in the stern somewhere and you are bound to mess up their propeller shafts and rudders.

Victork2 · January 19, 2020, 8:16am

You NEVER cease to amaze me @Hangar200 that’s incredible

Amiral_Crapaud · January 28, 2020, 2:10pm

Hello there valiant crowd!
We had a small dev update for January. Here it is:

Note that you might not learn much if you have been following this topic, but there is a bit more context & all in there that might make the click worth it. Enjoy

Troll · January 28, 2020, 3:34pm

Oh, I don’t know… Put him in a Viggen…!
But yeah, he’s pretty awesome otherwise.

Amiral_Crapaud · February 7, 2020, 3:24pm

A few screenshots, for those among you who might still be around?

First of all, our new weather model, which allows for localized rain squalls, the likes of which saved Zuikaku from a pounding at Coral Sea, or Enterprise from extermination at Santa Cruz. You will be allowed to use them too, but it works both ways…

Here, you can see them in action on the larger map. Blue areas are the ones where a set of conditions make rain happen - of course it changes dynamically, and the weather can be radically different 100 miles away. It’s your job to make sure that the weather Gods will favor you more than they harm you…

And here’s a view of how it looks like from under it:

Cloud cover will have an actual role in gameplay - as you can see here, it can very efficiently hide ships away from the sky. Your planes might very well miss the enemy - but in absence of a working radar, if communications are down or not an option, and if the Z/B system is non-operational for a reason or another, then your planes could very well miss you too…! They might have to pray for a little opening at the right spot in the cloud cover, just like here:

Of course, the same rules apply whenever you’ll be trying to get something done at night. Night ops are not impossible, nor forbidden, but try your luck at your own risk. Taking off in the darkness is already a difficult, yet necessary exercise when a dawn strike requires it - but bombing by moonlight in on a whole different level! Yet, it did happen…

Finally, a sneak peek at something that comes a bit closer to gameplay, for a change.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49501668756_62a5bfebcb_o.gif(image larger than 1 MB)

This one prototype shows how the game dimensions interact with each other. It is our early experiment at an interactive Command Post/Map/3D world integration. It is certainly no Radio Commander just yet of course, but it is a first step! It is very Work in Progress, so please be nice in the comments

At any rate, as you can see, the transition is smooth. Switching from a mode to another one doesn’t seem to impact performance in any way. As these instances already exist in-game permanently, they don’t need to be generated along the way, making the whole process feel rather natural and self-explanatory (well, that’s the feeling I have of course, but I am a bit biased - don’t hesitate to tell me if I am wrong!).

Of course, static 2D & full 3D visualization modes will be available too - you will just have to click the relevant button on the toolbar to activate them (more on that later…).

There we go - hope some of you muddies had some fun. See you around for the next update - and in the meantime, take good care

komemiute · February 7, 2020, 3:28pm

THIS. IS. SO. FRIGGING. BRILLIANT!

Amiral_Crapaud · February 7, 2020, 3:35pm

Thank you Kome!
Well well, nothing very special for flightsimmers like you people in here, but obviously compared to the standards usually offered to wargamers, there certainly was room for improvement in their case… ^^

komemiute · February 7, 2020, 3:39pm

To be honest I’m not a flightsimmer 100%, some of my fondest memories come from gaming in general.
Your game wake up in me some of the most exilarating gaming moments from C64 Epyx’s Destroyer, MicroProse 1942 Pacific Air War and Task Force 1942!

I’m also a complete nutjob for Strategy and Tactical wargaming so… I can’t wait for this gem to come out!

If you ever need a beta tester… wink wink, nudge nudge

Rhinosaurus · February 7, 2020, 5:07pm

This looks awesome. I will be awful at it and enjoy every minute.

wheelsup_cavu · February 7, 2020, 5:09pm

Wish actual flight sims could stage planes on the deck in the same manner. 1946 never came close which made staging a deck with all the B-25’s necessary for a Doolittle mission impossible.

Wheels

Victork2 · February 7, 2020, 5:33pm

I’m totally on board (hehe) with this… I 2nd @komemiute as beta tester. Plus myself of course.

This looks incredible

schurem · February 7, 2020, 5:38pm

Very interesting indeed! Keep posting these @Amiral_Crapaud, we’re lapping it up!

jenrick · February 7, 2020, 7:50pm

That looks excellent, I love how smoothly it transitions. Shaping up nicely!

Hangar200 · February 7, 2020, 9:46pm

Really like the full moon shots. In the days before wide spread use of NVGs, moonlight was much more of an important tactical consideration.

Amiral_Crapaud · February 9, 2020, 12:39pm

Thank you for the kind words guys
Let’s end the weekend with a little touch of gentle Mitsubishi tech - this time something closer to your expectations as simmers!

https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5db33ef55b732a3499e5973a/5e3f73121142d37928f103e5/ecf517ad0ee91ad0e20bc572638e8c97/A6M2_21_5.png(image larger than 1 MB)

And here is the Nakajima mutant - the lovely Rufe

Now the rivets counters in the assembly can have some fun - they are all there, by the way
Of course, we’re nowhere close to the detail of Il-2 GB or DCS in terms of polycount and texture resolution - but it is still quite good enough, I think, for a wargame. I will still enjoying zooming on my planes - and we hope that you will too

Have a beautiful, fine Sunday everyone, and take care!

Hangar200 · February 9, 2020, 5:10pm

I’ll take good FPS over accurate rivet count any day.