RAZBAM MiG-19P

dcs

#301

Would I?

but that said… there’s also other Mother Russia…


#302

I seal what you doin there :smiley:


#303

Appears to be a scene from the original Red Dawn…yet I think I would have remembered this character…:thinking:

…what? She has an eye patch? I hadn’t noticed. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:


#304

I think that maybe we need to adjust our perspectives when it comes to module releases.

It’s available when it’s available.

Promises in software development are likely to be incorrect 90% of the time. Not through malice, which is what everyone seems to assume when a date is missed, but usually through something being missed or an assumption being made that turned out to be … misguided? misunderstood?

And this is coming from someone (me) who has a deep background in software development. Someone who, when asked for an estimated date or work effort after decades of experience, doubles that estimate and still gets it wrong. And it is (usually) never through fault of my own. I have adjusted my estimates to match reality after looking back at what happens but there are always distractions and things that need to take priority over the task … because that is life in software development.

EDIT: There was no indication that I had seen at the time that I wrote this that ED had delayed the product because it did not meet their requirements.

Here are the facts:

  1. Unless you are flying it, it is not out;
  2. If you are flying it, it will have bugs;
  3. If it is ‘early access’ you are volunteering to test the product after paying for it, knowing that it is incomplete;
  4. We have no idea, even in the best circumstances, what is going on with releases and, in all honesty, are not entitled to that information;
  5. Building software is hard and scheduling it is harder and yes, marketing usually is mis-timed;
  6. It ‘pays’ to be cautious and to wait - it is your money and time;

I respect you guys and appreciate everyone perspectives on the topics that we talk about here.


#305

Oh and just for the record, I am not a RAZBAM fanboi or hater. I have all of their DCS Modules and I am happy with the state of the Mirage 2000C (and it’s upcomging fixes) and … unsatisfied … with the current state of the Harrier but I will likely buy the MiG-19P as it looks like it will be fun to fly. If it was early access, I would likely hesitate for a few months to see how things go.


#306

At the beginning of my career in software development, my boss (of all people) told me to multiply with Pi. I still do that quite often, and half of the time even that goes wrong. So yeah, pretty much how it works.


#307

I have some co-workers that make me multiply it by 4 or more :slight_smile:


#308

Thanks guys. I just narrowly missed my keyboard spitting coffee from laughing so hard. One of my favorite guilty pleasures for movies.

I think ED might be taking the quality control bit a little more seriously after the last fiasco, and I’m totally ok with this. Do it right, take a little more time if needed, and I’m glad that Razbam is committing to releasing a finished module at once instead of another early access that’s going to need tons of iterative updating. Has to be easier from a work resources point of view for them as well, right?

As for the Mirage 2000C, she’s still one of my favorite birds, and I’m really, really looking forward to the reworking of the avionics and system based on AdA feedback. Hopefully other modules can get similar love down the road if necessary.


#309

Fun fact:
We have really high standards by now.
Even the worst DCSW model of 2019 is miles ahead of most things we have had for many years.

I understand people who are hyped about the MiG-19 release being a bit sad right now, but then look how quickly it was developed, its apparent level of detail, its apparent level of completeness, and the amount of news we got during development.

Also: I don’t understand. People complain about unfinished, buggy modules. Now ED/Razbam postpones a model (for a few weeks presumably) to make sure the quality is OK, and people complain about that, too.
That feels a bit unfair to me. Compare it to other projects in the past (no bad feelings about most of them anymore, just listed for illustration purposes):

  • DCS WWII (took ages, then didn’t happen at all)
  • DCS Nevada (took ages)
  • DCS 2.0 (was “very close” for years and then released without half of the planned features)
  • Hawk (crappy module, then discontinued)
  • P-40 (I don’t even…)
  • MiG-21 (drama, took ages, buggy beta for a long time)
  • Mirage (major reworks during beta, still not quite there)
  • Huey (still missing some features that were planned, devs don’t react to anything at all)
  • Harrier (slooooow beta, might never get finished)
  • F/A-18C (at current development speed we might get it feature complete in 2021 or so. Maybe.)
  • new ATC (planned for shortly after version 1.5 but then postponed to shortly after 2.0 … )

So all in all?
I’d say the MiG-19 doesn’t look too bad.
ED and partners/3rd parties are getting better at this. :slight_smile:


#310

Oh ok. I feel better now. I too own the Mirrage and Harrier. I love them both and never posted anything but praise for these modules. @Aginor, thanks for that rundown on release drama. Guess I’d forgotten about them.
Ok, time to go drool over the Bronco, it looks nearly complete… two weeks out fo sho!!! :laughing:


#311

Sorry,But I Believe You are incorrect,I find enough information in "ED’s statement "in Why the module wouldn’t be released as well as information found in various forums that support my opinion
This was taken from FB


#312

From the horse’s mouth
https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3779942&postcount=32


#313

It doesn’t matter if I am incorrect or not about why it is not released. What I am saying is - “it is out when it is out” - and we shouldn’t set our expectations unrealistically. I honestly don’t care why it is not released. I am just trying to address anyone angry that it isn’t.


#314

Then Please do not quote my reply as I have nothing to do with the intention of your post. Very Sincere Thank You.


#315

I’m positive that @schurem is son of KGB operative.


#316

Am not. Was brought up in a communist commune tho.


#317

Actually, there is.

[Emphasis Mine]

That is clear who postponed the release and why it was postponed. I am grateful ED for sticking to their standards and not letting a product that doesn’t meet those standards go to market.

To be clear. We are not talking about “pre-release” or “early access”. This was supposed to be a finished product. To wit:

[again, emphasis mine]

So maybe ED’s bar is set higher? If it is, I applaud them.

I respect the “It will be ready when it is ready.” stance on software release.

So why did RAZBAM say it was going to be released any day now?

Actually, they never did, at least on this thread.

I just reviewed back to Sep 17 (see my notes below). On this thread, I could not find any post that specifically addressed a release date, schedule, timeframe, year, decade, century, etc. Sure there was a bunch of activity that made it appear that its release was impending–Early Access videos, Tutorials, listing of working features, etc.–nothing official and nothing about an impending release (on this thread).

Was there something official elsewhere? I didn’t look; I don’t know.

I was as caught up in disappointment it as others may have been. I apologize to anyone who feels that they took a spear from me on this…to include RAZBAM…althoughI am still mad at them about the FSX Harrier!

Notes:
Sep 17: Nbr 2 Mig-19 development update followed but typical Mudspike witty banter replies
Sep 18: RAZBAM: Mig 19P “Farmer B” teaser trailer (24 seconds) followed by a speculative discussion on release dates…and witty Mudspike banter
Oct 18: “Mini Update…” (From Hoggit), Full color screen shots, List of Currently Enabled Systems, witty banter, etc.
Nov 18: English, Russian, Chinese cockpit labels & manuals, more cool screen shots
Dec 18: The “shiny” picture
Jan 18: Mig-19 Gif; more, even coolers screen shots; 4k background; Videos: Early Access First Look!, Tutorials 1, 2, 3, 4, A2A & A2G Weapons Tutorial, Early Access Preview and Impressions, Early Access First Impressions, radar ground clutter test, Early Access Razbam Mig-19p - Sabre Hunt; etc.…the level of Mudspike banter increases.

21 hours ago (seems a lot longer) is the ED “not ready yet” message.


#318

Guys,
It’s delayed.
If this affects your life in a negative way, find your happy place or something.
You are all entitled to your opinions, but keep in mind that nobody died because of this.

Move on.


#319

I’m going to go crash Viggens until I feel better! :wink:


#320

Hey, if it lifts your spirit, take a squadron. On me! :wink: