I’ll beta-test it for ye. I don’t mind a bug or two and I love that phat-tailed monster :smiley: I love aircraft, the more different they are the better. I never expected to like the MiG-15 but I did. And I love the F-5E, the MiG-21 and the Viggen. All strange beasts in their own rights. The more the merrier. I like being a test pilot :sunglasses: :f14:


That’s the spirit!


In the “less seen” category I’d be interested in a Fitter.

Fortunately, I got to fly many of these planes in SF1/2 over the last decade and a half and found some to be quite enjoyable.

I wonder if there will be a “Falcon 3 real” version of the MiG-19 included that can single-handedly take on an entire squadron of F-16s when DCS Viper comes along?


How could you forget the F-111 in either of those lists? :stuck_out_tongue:


I was concerned of what @Bogusheadbox might do if I listed the F-111 as a “niche” aircraft…which it is. :stuck_out_tongue:


The -111 is the alpha and omega of combat jets from the golden age of combat jets. its the biggest, the loudest, the fastest. Hallowed be its numbers, it’s kingdom came (in the form of a thousand plinked iraqi tanks). 111 is great, and @Bogusheadbox is its prophet. all hail the pig. :f111:

A good Fitter would be awesome, and would have nice bit of systems overlap with the MiG-27 iirc. Well, gotta leave some for the future eh.


Actually, the late model M4 Fitter-Ks were far more capable ground attack aircraft than the MiG-27s.


Didn’t they have identical EO and nav/attack suites at some time? One would think upgrades to one would be applicable to the others. But then M4s were the final ones in service weren’t they?


No, they had some differences though I’d be at a loss to say how much different. The Fitter had the Klyon LDRF/TV system while the Flogger had Kayra. I believe the Fitter also had a better RWR and ECM system. Basically, the Fitter had a lot of the same systems that the Frogfoot does. The Fitter also had a greater number of hardpoints with more versatile armament options.


But the flogger was faster, right?


On paper, the Fitter had a higher maximum speed. For practical purposes, they might as well have had the same speed.


So why then did the duck nose flogger exist?


Money, my dear boy! Money. MiG-23 airframe was cheaper. Also it allowed commonality with the MiG-23 fleet.


Powerful the duck-nosed Russian lobby was…powerful.

Even more so than in the West, politics played a role in the selection of those planes. For many decades, MiG was over Sukhoi. They could do no wrong, while Sukhoi begged for scraps. Not until the Flanker did that really change, and when it did it swung all the way over.

Just look how many Flanker variants we’ve had in the last 30 years, and how few Fulcrum. Even though the 33 was oversized for the Kuz, it beat the 29K. The MiG-29M/35 was a great plane, but as they’re on the “outs” compared to Sukhoi now, we see far more Flankers around.

Likewise the 1.42/44 went nowhere while the Su-57 is now the darling child.

Same thing happened to Mil and Kamov, but on a shorter time scale. They keep trading top slots in favor.


Don’t forget that Sukhoi was the go-to for attack aviation while Mikoyan was the go-to for fighters. The PVO also tended to use Sukhoi interceptors over Mikoyan aircraft.


A lot also depends on the specific variants. The Su-17M-3 and the MiG-27D/M basically had the same attack suite with a Klyon laser-rangefinder/designator and gunsight (comparable to the vanilla Su-25). The Su-17M-4 added a TV screen to display Kh-29T seeker-video. The MiG-27K was an entirely new league with a proper HUD and the Kaira targeting system which included a camera system with a laser designator (comparable to the much later Su-25T’s Shkval, but able to designate down- and backwards for laser-guided bombs).


What’s the difference in weight?


Su-17 is about ~200kg heavier empty. About the same. Max T/O for the Flogger is about 1,200kg greater.


Yet the floggers warload is smaller. So … the flogger goes further and is smaller?


A bit further, not by much. I doubt the combat radius between the two was much different. The two aircraft are really neck and neck; the real practical differences is the Fitter could pack an ELINT pod that doubled as a camera pod and flare pod, as well as the Fitter having a slightly wider assortment of anti-radiation missiles like the Kh-58 available. In addition to having more flexibility for weaponry configurations.