I think it goes to show that there isn’t a one size fits all solution when it comes to VR. What is important to one person isn’t necessarily the same for another.
I don’t think Paul has every used a Vive, so is sort of basing his ‘Facebook is nicer’ info on how that WMR bridge thing went for him and how he set it up. Have you used a Vive ever, Paul? I ask in the context of people considering the Valve Index.
I think a Valve-designed single software and hardware stack is something much nicer than even the Oculus stack. It also depends a lot on the implementation in existing things of how impressions form and stick. X-Plane is nicer in OpenVR, DCS is sort of better in OculusSDK, as that’s where they put the effort in.
WMR is a bunch of pain points where for me they are worth getting through for nicer clarity etc, but I respect that for others it is too much or not what they want. Vive la différence etc. 
No, I have to admit, I have never used a Vive. My VR experience is limited to the Rift CV1 and the O+ . I probably should add that when it comes to cell phones, I am an iPhone user, and was never impressed by the plethora of Android phones. I guess I’m just getting old 
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Preordered the Rift S today.
I’m thinking it will be a sufficient step up, considering the hardware requirements for anything with higher resolution and/or wider FoV. And I really want to get rid of the external sensors in my SimBox. Yes, there’s a redesign scheduled for the next month…
And, like @PaulRix I really like the simplicity of the Oculus platform. When I grow a @fearlessfrog brain, I will probably focus beyond the tip of my nose, and look at the WMR displays…
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It does too relate to how one uses their headset. For me, I didn’t have fixed Oculus sensor locations…rather, they were just placed on my desk, and constantly getting jostled by cats, kids, and me…so my play area was frequently out of adjustment (requiring running that recalibration routine). I do enjoy the inside-out “put it on and it sees where you are” feature, but at the cost of tracking acuity up near the ears and obviously behind the headset…fortunately an action I rarely do given I’m not doing gymnastics in VR (much).
WMR software definitely seems more geared (or accidentally geared) toward tweakers. I don’t know if that makes it more powerful or less to be honest. Perhaps it just makes it different (more frustrating for some as has been noted).
I just hope all the tech continues to evolve in our direction (flight simmers)…and I’ll be happy enough with that. I know I grinned a bit when I saw that King Air 350 in VR today for the first time. It is a clunky experience due to the developer not really going after the VR integration, but once you have everything set in the cockpit, the flying is so fun. Particularly night operations in X-Plane.
I think when we get to the point of ‘waiting for reviews’ before pre-ordering as being the ‘brain’ option then it’s probably all just about platform loyalty, which means there’s not a lot to say about specs etc.
A lot of it might be to do with when people first used VR as well.
Steam home, with multiple people was great, and pre-dated Oculus Home by a long time. People forget how bad the Oculus store was in v1 I think.
The Rift didn’t ship with touch controllers (it came with an Xbox One controller), so the Vive and the Vive Wands seemed like ‘proper VR’.
The Vive Pro resolution was big step up over the Rift, but very few people got to see it due to the cost.
I guess I’m trying to say the various favorites and prejudices we hold over things like Apple, Google, Facebook etc are often just a circumstance of what we used before. The Rift is a lot of people’s first VR device, so the Rift S will always be the safest thing to do.
That is a good analogy. Google is like Facebook, where the advertising is always a factor that’s diametrically opposed to your privacy. Valve is like Apple in this case, in that they want to sell you a hardware device purely so you buy more software, not a bit of hardware that is a ‘platform’ for future social media or advertising channel. Apple are smart, in that the high cost of the hardware has become a ‘feature’, because they know they aren’t selling privacy, like a lot of other business models have to be.
So what will happen when the Index struggles to reach 120, will there be a side effect to that? I sorta thought 90 was a good target area…particularly when I play regularly at 45 (albeit a flight sim…not a twitchy shooter…)…
Good question. I was wondering the same thing considering PC hardware isn’t quite enough to get solid 90FPS for titles like DCS.
I’ve got a feeling pure 144Hz ain’t happening for X-Plane or DCS very soon.
I suppose the 120 does go to 60 fps reprojection for things that can’t reach the native framerate. The Tested Review video (that’s a must watch really) did talk about it being switchable, i.e. you can go to 90 / 45 reprojected if you want.
There is quite a contrast in directions between the defaults 80Hz on the Rift S and the 144Hz (or 120Hz by default) on the Valve Index. Valve seem to be putting a lot of stock in the idea of ‘immersion through better tracking/refresh rate’.
For pure VR I think it sounds cool (you know that Valve will make their new titles reach 120, and Tested mentioned running Beat Saber at 120 on a Nv980 in their review) but for flight sims it might not be for us unless some serious optimization happens. That’s what I see good about all this, in that it is pushing VR forward rather than going backwards - we need that.
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Yeah…I think Valve is definitely first-person shooter heavy with regards to gaming. We are the odd duck out that might benefit from all this stuff (FOV, getting rid of ghosting, etc…) if we can reach those framerates. Of course, I was running XP11 earlier today with a very complex aircraft, and pretty decent scenery, with everything pretty much at the 75% slider level and I was having a blast. I didn’t look at the FPS - I’d rather not…I can just feel bad and good…LOL…I try not to get too hung up on the numbers. Of course, that won’t work for jets like DCS that have roll rates of 2 or 300 degrees per second…that is where those very rapid refresh rates will help.
Someday…I need to fire up Elite Dangerous. LOL…
Well, I think this requires brain. 
And, while I said I’d wait for the reviews, Wags statement and various hands on videos convinced me that the S in fact is a step up from the OG Rift, and that it is the headset for me, this year. Next year may be another matter, but getting a higher spec’ed headset may also trigger at least a 2080 TI upgrade. Quite possibly a new CPU as well.
So, I think that I’d rather fly around with a small increase in picture clarity, sans external sensors, and keep the detail level where it is today, instead of getting a headset with a much better picture, just to realize my PC needs an upgrade.
So, it’s not about…
Not entirely, at least.
Depends on what you mean about platform loyalty.
If you mean, ‘Oculus made me invest heavily in their store, and all I have is non WMR compatible games’ that’s not the case either. I have learned from my Iphone/Ipad experience. I mainly play flightsims. Just have a couple of games that I bought on the Oculus store.
It’s not that I’m a huge devoted Facebook fan, either. Nor do I secretly admire MZ, although I’d trade bank accounts with the guy, any day.
It’s more about wanting a new headset today and I still can’t order a Samsung O+, over here. Actually, that’s not entirely true. There is a store that sell the O+ in Norway. Current price is equal to $1100.
But I am pretty happy with what Oculus delivered 3y ago.
Which ones did you find useful for flight sims and the Rift S?
I was worried about the downgrade in the ear-phones, the black levels on an LCD and the lower refresh rate than the original Rift. I also didn’t like the Lenovo Headband design, as ironically the original Rift is probably better. I believe Wags was under an NDA to not compare the headset with others in any detail, at least till 11 hours ago when the NDA expired. I too think it will be ‘great’ but the comparisons are the trick for me.
I guess what I was trying to say is that there are no reviews that compare the Rift S, Valve Index, HP Reverb as yet as of today, so preordering was, for me personally, something that seemed a bit premature. The only rationale I could come up with was wanting to retain Oculus Store purchases, which is a fine reason in itself.
The thread you linked to talked about oversampling the Odyssey O+ for trying to get a clearer display (something 1.4x the current OG Rift), so I don’t think that is something we’ll be doing with the WMR HP Reverb (it’s a 2160 x 2160 per-eye resolution, compared to the Rift S 1280 x 1440 per-eye).
We’re probably about 2 or 3 weeks from having all the info we need after waiting months for all these to come out as well.
Roll on the actual reviews. I’d be happy enough to buy a Rift S, but I do want to check that I’m not going to regret it just a few short weeks down the line.
That would be Wags statement
But I was thinking about the S being an improvement of the OG Rift, worth the money.
Initial statements said ’No’, so I thought I’d wait. Then the ’Hm? Maybe’ and ’Yes’ statements arrived and I thought ”I’d pay half of that just to be able to remove the sensor arms from my SimBox”.
You trying to convince me that your brain isn’t already thinking about ways it will hack the Reverb…?
Seriously though. If I could’ve gotten a O+ back when you did that research and found ways to improve the settings, I would’ve bought one. In fact, I had plans to go to the US with my brother, and get one during the trip. Alas, the trip had to be cancelled.
I think you’re a clever guy and I’m impressed by the way you tinker on and find ways to wring out better and better performance out of Steam VR and the Odyssey. Would’ve loved to follow that footpath. But, you know, Samsung hates Europeans.
It will be very interesting to see what you will do with your next headset.
That means somebody has to go first, right?
I have a vacation coming up soon. Wife works at the university and can’t leave her students without their exams and daughter is at school. Gotta love rotation vacation… Will catch up some reviews of the more mundane flightcontrollers that I have got, and do some changes to the SimBox. Hopefully I’ll get the S during the vacation too.
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I recently made a purchase that I believe will increase my VR experience, by at least 3%.
A polishing cloth, with its own pouch!
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I think it will be worth it, in that the lens from the Go are really nice and $399 is a good deal. I don’t miss those Oculus sensors at all.
I think I’ll probably have to undersample it!
One thing that is interesting is that I often read ‘I would get a Reverb but I need a new PC’ and that does sound like good advice, but I’ve been running X-Plane and DCS at OpenVR 200% for four months now. That means on my little i5 and poor 1070 I’m running 2017x2517 per eye (oversampling the O+). What this means is that even if I didn’t change any setting, and used the Reverb I would get 1:1 pixel native resolution (more or less) but the same performance. I say this because there is this natural tendency to think ‘New VR = New PC’ needed, and I think we’re close enough to see if that is true or not.
The Valve Index is not available in Canada, and apparently has no plans to do so. 
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I don’t know how you manage that…
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Did they ever even release the Steam link smart tv app in Canada?
So what happened to the Reverb? It was supposed to be released in April but there have been no news since the initial announcment.
The Valve Index looks great as a gamer’s headset. I must say that the idea of a Valve flagship VR game later the year makes their headset very interesting. But then I have zero space for roomscale around my PC anyway so I am limited to a seated expierience, for which the Reverb will probably be the better unit.
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He’s already bought a specialized tool to crack it in half and look at the insides…
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