WinWing F-16 Viper Throttle/Hotas

I never noticed it until recently, but the real a/c has them, albeit part of the cockpit wall.

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Exactly.
Many years ago I was contemplating on doing something similar for the TM Cougar throttle…

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Mine are in CA now, so I hope to have them in the next couple of days.

Glad to hear I don’t need the metal riser because I was concerned about how long to put it on, easy swapping with the Hornet throttle, and how much space it would need on my desk over the current Orion base.

I’m also getting the F-16EX stick grip with the extra hat and buttons.

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Nice!!! I look forward to hearing your opinion of it also.

Oh geez, the last time JediMaster posted about his new WInWing setup I went out and bought one too.
A great piece of kit btw!

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I wonder why the dogfight switch looks so different there. Something specific to the AM or something that happened later once it went on display?

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Probably something missing. I’ve never seen a cockpit trainer, whether .mil or .civ, that didn’t have a handful of missing knob caps or broken components from people getting in and out all of the time. Most of the time there’s no motivation to fix them, either.

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So due to the shipping gods being annoyed with me, I got the stick last night but the throttle is to arrive today.

Not wanting to wait, I swapped the grip and found that F-16EX + Hornet throttle is a good A-10C setup. While it doesn’t have the coolie hat on the throttle, the F-16EX has more than enough to spare!

To the left of the standard stick top is an extra 5-way hat (which I made coolie) and a mini stick that can be mapped to be buttons, stick, or both (like Hornet throttle TDC). There is also a 2nd trigger that is actually an analog axis as well as multiple buttons as you swing it thru its arc. Not sure what to use it for yet, but you can’t resist thinking of the possibilities. It will hold position from fully up to about 2/3 through, then it has a spring-loaded trigger action for the final bit. There are button actuations at the transition to spring loaded as well as full press.

It also turned the index master mode/step/NWS button into a 5 way hat (in fact every single hat is a 5 way with Z axis depress as well as lateral motion), and below the pinky button is a paddle switch that is ALSO an analog axis! This makes it perfect for the MiG-style hand brake.
The vibration motor isn’t FFB, it’s more like the haptic feel in a console controller, haven’t tried it yet outside the software but I’m not sure I would want it for more than a stall stick shaker.

Purists can remove the extra trigger and 2 hats on the left, as it’s a plastic detachable unit (for weight reasons I’m sure, so it’s not too top heavy), but I see no reason to do so.

It is slightly shorter than the Hornet stick and weighs less (that Hornet head is large and solid metal), plus it has an adjustable wrist rest. I left it at default as it’s perfect for my hand size and one thing the Hornet grip didn’t have I missed from my X-56.

It’s easily removable for when I want to fly the Hornet again, but I will likely use it for almost every other plane.

I really can’t say enough good things about this stick on first impressions. Sure, the plastic extra bit could’ve been metal, but it’s as high-quality as the X-56 plastic so big deal. I can’t wait to try it with my other planes, although I will need to remap them all first since I only did the A-10C II last night (as well as Il-2 because I’d rather use this one than Hornet there).

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Nice!!! Sounds like the stick has a lot of incredible options

Just an hour after I wrote that the throttle handle arrived. I’ll spend time with it this weekend.

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:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
I Love when that happens!!!..look forward to hearing your impressions.

So I decided not to use the metal riser plate. It’s not required, it just adds to the feel with the idle/AB detents. Due to my desk setup (using a keyboard drawer), if I put the riser on it would result in the end of the throttle hanging over the edge. This decision of course sped up assembly.

If you watch RedKite’s throttle video, I largely agree with his points. The hat on the Man Rng knob is great, the knob itself is a bit hard to use due to stiffness and proximity to the radio switch. The 2 bonus buttons are welcome, although I find the middle finger button sits under my finger instead of my finger tip (is my middle finger too long?). The ring finger button is just right. The Ant Elev knob is also quite stiff but easy to use with finger/thumb. You won’t spin it with just the thumb though. Hats/switches/TDC slew are the same feel as on the Hornet throttle and F-16 stick.

One difference for me was the rest of the assembly. Instead of using the long bolt to secure left and right sides to the handle, I have the magnetic bolt from the Hornet handle there and it doesn’t need to be removed. You can leave it there, install the F16 grip, and then use the mag bolt to lock left and right sides (like you would on the Hornet) and leave it be. No worries about misplacing it now.

The one he was sent had the throttle wires longer to begin with and still he pulled the right one out more. I found I would need to pull the right AND the left out to make them work as intended when the throttle was at idle, forget cutoff. If I did that, though, the wires would be way too long for the Hornet throttles when at max AB. I did not relish the idea of pushing the wires in and pulling them out again every time I swapped.

I found instead you can bypass the “official” wire placements. I plugged the right wire into the handle connector but instead of placing the connector in the clip I have the wire below it instead, effectively adding that wire’s length to the base’s. While it sits loose, it doesn’t come out. I can go from cutoff to max AB and it never catches or gets stuck. The left wire as I mentioned is not long enough to fit in the clip at Hornet throttle length, so I just threaded it up thru the handle wire. It is loose and the ring connector at the end rattles when I move the throttle a lot, but it’s tight enough it won’t fall out or get caught.

Note this is all because I have the Hornet throttles and the F-16 throttle for one base and I want to be able to swap back and forth. If you had a base dedicated for it, you could just set the wires as needed and forget it.
Bottom line though is you can do it with only a slight bit of fuss. If I’d decided to use the riser plate, too, I would also have that extra step when swapping the handles, with its attendant alignment fussing each time.

The only real issues I had were with Il-2 BoX. As the F-16EX stick has so many more buttons than the Hornet one, I have to use both throttle and stick in 4x32 mode. This means to Windows and Il-2 I have 8 sticks plus rudder pedals. Il-2 at first kept choking on it, remembering the old setup only, and wouldn’t let me map anything until I deleted a config file in Il-2 that had the sticks in it.

I could’ve gotten along with the Hornet stick in Il-2 just fine, the extra hats/buttons aren’t needed there, but I didn’t feel like swapping the handles for that.

Well this was a lot longer than I thought it would be.

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Thanks for the time/effort with that review. It’s appreciated. Any hints at longevity with this piece, or any from them really? I know it’s early but sometimes things stand out. Sounds like, other than the issues with IL-2, this grip might be a good all-rounder (has so many buttons).

It’s solid. Nothing flimsy. The only thing I ever felt hesitant about is the mark button on the Hornet grip because they actually made it a 5-way hat instead of a button (a theme with Winwing–why make it a button if it can be a 5-way hat!) so I mapped that to things I didn’t use regularly to keep the wear low because it feels like if you’re too rough it with you could maybe push it off.

All the main sensors are non-contact so it’s spike free and accurate. Everything is metal except the plastic hats and buttons on the grips (the base switches are a combination of metal and plastic). Maybe in 5 years I’ll feel different (I mean how long did it take after TM’s WH came out before people really grasped its weaknesses? I don’t know) but for now I’m thrilled with both sticks and both grips. Ideally I would have 4 bases instead of 2 so I don’t have to swap, but the space and cost made me get just the grips. That plus I think the bases were out of stock when I ordered while the grips were there. :slight_smile: They’re out of stock again until mid-March so people snapped these up.

While I’d like their collective grip for the Ka-50 and soon AH-64, seeing how little space my desk has for just the F-16 riser I would need a chair mount and while Monstertech makes some great ones my chair doesn’t have those removable/adjustable arms but large loops that attach to chair back and seat sides so that’s out until I get a different chair (and this one is less than 2 yrs old so no time soon!)

Overall, while the fact that they’re a Chinese company and ship from there makes things a bit less comfortable than if it was TM or Logitech, their quality and packaging has been top notch, the software and firmware update process is seamless, and I feel like I got what I paid for. Not overpriced, not luxury (although definitely not budget), it’s what you’d call a middle class HOTAS. :wink: Their documentation has typical translation fuzziness but I’ve honestly seen worse on ASUS motherboard manuals so no dings for that.

If something like the T1600 is a compact Kia or Toyota, and some of those expensive HOTAS are like a BMW or Mercedes, these are like the most expensive Honda or Toyota on the lot. Achievable by average people if they save, and you don’t have buyer’s remorse after you do.

PS: one thing I think I should mention is the stick/base attachment point. The docs and videos want you to use the little securing screw where the flat part of the stick threading is which is directly facing you (6 o’clock let’s say). Well I can’t. It won’t tighten that far, it gets about 315 degrees around but misses that last 45. If I back it off enough to make it fit the other way, that’s almost a full turn and it’s too lose. This applies to both Hornet and F-16 sticks. So instead I very gently and carefully tighten that screw to make sure it won’t move with regular stick motion. I’ve heard of people who over did that screw and damaged the threads enough to permanently keep stick and base together. So just be mindful of how much metal can take!

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I found this problem also…The throttle just was not comfortable to use when placed in the same spot as my Virpil that I use for fixed wing aircraft
.I know this looks really awkward but it actually works really well for me.Very natural movement kinda like pulling a hand brake :grinning:
I placed my throttle on a 45*angle…It saves room and is much more easier to control than having your arm on a right angle.

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Interesting concept…

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I guess at some point I’ll be in the market for one of these. Zinc pest is slowly eating away at my TMWH stick.

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I think you’ll like it…it definitely has a TMWH quality feel to it.

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I’m so happy to announce that my Viper throttle has finally shipped. I should also be getting the updated base with it. I’ve always loved the ergonomics of the Viper throttle and only got a Warthog because my Cougar was aging out. I really hope my TM stick and WW throttle will be able to coexist without issues. Feeling like a kid on Christmas Eve. :grinning:

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